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Debate over illegal immigrants
Recent articles in The Salt Lake Tribune report the current debate about how illegal immigrants should be treated in Utah (see the latest article here) The Utahns for Immigration Reform (UFIRE) maintains that since illegal immigrants are breaking the law, and since the LDS Church's 12th Article of Faith says church members are subject to the laws of the country they live, the Church should ban illegal immigrants from attending the temple, and from receiving church callings.
The LDS Church (properly) told UFIRE they were out of line, using more strongly worded language than you normally hear from church spokespersons concerning political issues. UFIRE made the (common) mistake of "citing church teachings as apparent justification for their political positions". Afterwards, UFIRE appeared to say something along the lines of 'we were misquoted' and fired their leader.
UFIRE's position is silly, not only in principle, but in application. How exactly were they suggesting the Church enforce such a ban? Requiring LDS immigrants to bring their passports, birth certificates and other supporting documentation to the temple with them? A permission slip from INS? How demeaning... Of course, church members should obey the law, but gee, does UFIRE think members should be banned from the temple for having unpaid parking tickets also?
February 27, 2004 in LDS Church News | Permalink
Comments
I think UFIRE's activities are so racially based, because the Anti-Immigration movement is really an Anti-Latino movement, and it is against Church teachings to discriminate.
Even though before 1978 when Blacks were denied the Priesthood, Latinos, Indians, Polynesians, and Asians weren't given the same treatment, and in fact Latinos, Indians, Polynesians, were treated as "lost sheep".
Quite frankly UFIRE ought to put up and shut up.
Posted by: Hank Ramey | Jul 3, 2004 2:03:06 AM
If we don't have border, we don't have a country plain and simple. Right now, at this point in time any terrorist could walk across the border with a nuclear device and blow us up (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39682
).
To promote open borders is suicide. Illegal immigration is not a race issue. It is a culture issue. Do we bring over immigrants who are here to assimulate or to work the system? When someone comes here illegaly, we do not have any documentation on them whatsoever. Are they here to work? blow us up? sell drugs? commit crime? get free medical care? have a baby and get welfare? Illegal Aliens come here for all the above. Not all illegals come here to work (http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html).
The Republicans want illegal aliens here for cheap labor. The Democrats want illegal aliens for more poor people for their social programs. Why do you want illegals here? What advantage is in it for our working class? I'm sorry that people in other countries are making 50 cents an hour, does that mean we should bring them all here an replace every American worker making more than minimum wage? Think about it, and stop calling people racist for caring about Americas future.
Posted by: Ron | Jul 31, 2004 11:36:20 AM
UFIRE is not racist, to uphold the laws of a country is not being racist. If something is wrong is wrong and the reason the church does not want to denied a temple recomend to an illegal is because we do not want to lose members.
Posted by: juan j simon | Aug 4, 2004 12:33:05 AM
To involve and implicate the Mormon Church was wrong, however slips of the tongue happens to us all sometimes. The ILLEGAL issue is a real one that is not going to go away. No one is against anyone coming to America. We are all immigrants. However immigration has to be controlled so that the immigrants can fit into our society, have jobs and eventually become US Citizens. At 3000 to 5000 illegals coming across our borders daily, we are in peril. The Border Patrol says 10 to 15 % are from many other "Unfriendly Countries" to be what perhaps, terrorists ? Our Governor has to get control of the situation today or else he is a bi product of the new world order group who is strangling our Constitution today. There are over 60,000 illegals here in Utah today. Have they taking your job in construction, farming, restaurant, ranching,etc. yet. If not, it is a matter of time. We can't blame the business owners (Try being in their shoes with all the government controls), the blame lies with our Legislators. Our Country is led by men WITHOUT honor, and yet they are sustained in power by the honor of men like us. Who, then betrays his country? No,
we have no time for arguments. I only plant this idea so it will fester in your soul. It is time to give up the straight party system and vote for men of honor and get rid of the riff raff because they don't listen to our wants or needs anyhow, unless in some way it illegally lines their own pockets by the acts of illegal lobbiests.
Posted by: wally | Feb 6, 2005 11:31:23 PM
Having lived in Arizona for five years and now living in Utah I see what happened in Arizona happening here. People feel all warm and fuzzy about "illegal" immigrants and then when things go sour they wonder what happened. Why is our Medicaid bankrupt? Where is our education money? Why is crime rising? Why is domestic violence rising? All of these can be traced back to "illegal" immigrants. Many come to work but remain on public assistance after many, many years. Then the warm and fuzzy feeling is gone.
Posted by: Lori | Jun 16, 2005 7:53:09 PM
Glad I found this post, there are so many issues.
Easy transportation has changed so many things.
Posted by: Stephen M (Ethesis) | Aug 31, 2005 10:09:28 PM
It's against the law to hire illegal immigrants. The government does not enforce those laws. If they did there would be a lot less people coming into this country, illegally. Nation wide, there seems to be a big effort to focus our attention on the illegal immigrants instead of the businesses that illegally hire them. There is no excuse, to attack one and not the other. The excuse that we'll be paying $6 for a head of lettuce does not change the law, that has been violated for over 40 years.
Posted by: John | Sep 29, 2005 9:21:32 AM
You might enjoy the discussion here:
http://ozarque.livejournal.com/262276.html
Posted by: Stephen M (Ethesis) | Jun 6, 2006 5:58:38 AM
We could learn alot from Mexican's we have them here in Colorado to, but by watching them this is what I have learned. They seem to be a joyous people, they seem to really help one another. They have no problem living with 2 to 3 families under one roof. They share what they reap, even sending US money to their poor families in Mexico. They do jobs that some of wouldn't or couldn't do. They enjoy music, playing games in groups. They feed each other. Here is what I believe, if they want to be here, then they must become US citizens, they must learn to speak our language. They must pay taxes and we must accept them. Brothers and Sisters, what would Jesus do. Would he embrace them or turn them away. Is it there fault that they want a better life, just as our ancestors did, as we do. Poverty is a horrendous thing isn't it. What would we do, if the shoe were on the other foot? Do we make war against them? The problem is our government. They do not hear us, they do what they want. The only thing that will change is if we as a people make a stand. Write your President, your congressman. Susan
Posted by: Susan | Sep 21, 2006 10:01:43 PM
I've written all my representatives (Both Senators, one Democrat, the other Republican, and my Republican Congressman) and get non-committal responses. They're scared to death to take a stand on this.
Bush has been a big disappointment to me on this issue. From what I’ve heard, for a long time he has been trying to get a guest-worker program going. Not due to our neighbors to the South. He's been trying to up the number of computer techs trained in places like India to work here in the US. Big business has been trying to force down the wages they are paying for computer techs. (Why do you think when you call Dell for customer support you are speaking to someone in Bombay?) Nice how US citizens pay a fortune for this training only to have their wages crushed due to that influx This Mexico border thing is just a convenient vehicle for him to use to push through the other program.
Baron you’re in the industry. Have you heard anything of this in the past few years?
Posted by: Tom | Oct 8, 2006 8:51:34 PM
I just moved back to Utah From Living on the Border in a Town Called El Centro CA. This is where most vegtables are grown through fall and winter months for the US. When poeple try to use the arguement that it will cost 6.00 per head of lettuce if we didn't have illegals is ignorant we have a workers program set in place. everday many workers come legally across the border and work in America in many different jobs, including working in the fields. Now its the Illegals that aren't helping but instead using medicaid for free many hospitals have gone bankrupt along our borders, they are naming their newborns the same name as them and then commit identity theft, using their childs SS number. I could go on and on but the point is we need to know who is in our country. They can still come over and work and work cheap for those that are worried about cost of fruit, but it is time to put a stop to illegal immigration.
Posted by: Jordan Marchbanks | Nov 5, 2006 12:28:50 AM
It appears that we all get the same response from our Congress on these issues.
Please help engage others in my web Site so I may help you spread the word that we must force Congress to take action now!
Only strong action is going to bring results.
Would be happy to exchange links with you.
Good article!
William E. Williams
Posted by: William E. Williams | Nov 21, 2006 2:51:33 PM
My sister is an ER doctor in LA, and my opinion is largely based on her experience. The majority of ER patients she sees do not speak English. What makes it even worse is the ones that do will sometimes deny it or worse, get angry that she doesn't speak their language in her country during what is supposed to be a medical emergency! She delivers one or two babies a month (that only happens if the mom doesn't get there until moments before (and sometimes after) giving birth and there is no time to take her to the labor and delivery unit). My sister has never delivered a baby where either of the two parents spoke English! Not once (yet) and the hospital is in a predominantly white, blue-collar neighborhood. Every newborn and mother is insured for at least the first six months by the states Medicaid program (not that I disagree since the newborn broke no laws, but still), so the taxpayers get stuck with the first of many MANY bills for this family who immigrated illegally. Nice, huh?
Canada figured out this scam almost 15 years ago (they were having similar problems with illegal Asian immigration, made legal when the Mother would give birth in Vancouver earning automatic citizenship for their child and eventually the rest of the family as the immediate family of the newborn citizen. Women would often go into labor on a cargo ship or plane and cross their legs until they were safely on Canadian soil ... not a good idea since your chance of getting a stillborn or at least a child severely disabled with cerebral palsy goes way up doing this. Canada figured out the scam pretty quickly and changed their laws so just because your first breath is Canadian air, doesn't mean you're automatically a Canadian citizen. They don't have even a fraction of the illegal immigration problem that they did before and deliveries on the docks and at Vancouver Airport went from being a routine, daily event, to something that rarely or ever happens.
IMHO, we have got to
1. Secure our border, starting in the most desolate areas please (not the other way around). I'm much more sickened and worried about the almost daily deaths and serious injuries from people wondering in the desert for days than I am some random “terrorist”. (Worldnetdaily.com?!? Really? I've read some pretty wacky left and right wing sites but this one takes the cake. Is that their latest “we terrorize you so they can't since you're already terrorized” campaign?)
2. Here's a bit of free advice for Romney from a liberal Mormon. Amend the constitution where it gives automatic citizenship to anyone born on American soil. Pushing for the same-sex marriage ban amendment that has no chance of ever becoming law and is now a tired, un-winnable “liberal v conservative” campaign issue. Instead center your campaign around this one and let McCain try to explain why even though he's for the marriage ban, he voted against it after he voted for it. The immigration issue resonates with everyone because it has real and quantifiable affects on everyone. Also, it has a chance of getting passed, would save billions on social programs set up to address this issue, and would actually shrink the size of government a tad for once. Wouldn't that be a nice change! You would definitely get my vote and even some of the Born Again Evangelical vote that all other things being equal, would probably vote for a drug-addicted-closet-case-client of a male prostitute than for a Mormon.
Posted by: Jeff Sessions | Nov 26, 2006 3:33:32 AM
Shame on the church for condoning illegal behavior. They walk on eggs in other countries, working tirelessly to stay within the law.
I have called the church business offices in SLC when I saw illegals doing construction work on a church in Northern Utah. They were more upset that the illegals were drinking on site than that they had hired illegals...
Shame...shame...shame....Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God, that which is God's...OBEY THE LAW OF THE LAND....WITHOUT RATIONALIZING THE LAW TO BENEFIT THE CHURCH...SHAME.
Posted by: Kate | Jul 25, 2007 9:55:41 PM
I was one of the UFIRE members mentioned in the original article. The press did not report on the entire incident correctly.
In 2004, several members of UFIRE had traveled to the State Capitol to testify before the Houe Transportation committee in favor of HB209, which would have repealed the ability for illegal aliens to obtain a drivers license and register to vote in Utah.
I was there on behalf of my father who was a recently retired US Border Patrol Deputy Chief who had just testified before Congress following the 9-11 attacks. He was involved in arresting a couple of terrorists who had attempted to enter Washington state on their way to Los Angeles with a bomb.
After receiving public testimony, the committee voted in favor of passing the bill onto the House. Some of us went down to the House message area and were filling out thank you cards for committee members who had listened and voted for the bill.
A group of Hispanic people approached us and immediately began to argue with us. They told us they were LDS and that our stance was contrary to the church position on illegal immigration. They even went as far to question whether or not we would be excommunicated for testifying about this issue.
Because I had served a mission in Spain, I was able to converse with these individuals in fluent Spanish. I emphasized that we were not motivated by race, but for a duty to follow the law. I mentioned that the church's 12th article of faith states a belief in being subject to and obeying the law.
I also mentioned that it would be difficult for an illegal alien to truthfully answer the honesty-related questions when obtaining a temple recommend if they were living and working under a false identity and breaking a number of felony laws.
After several minutes the two individuals I spoke to calmed down and the conversation became cordial. They were associated with the Mundo Hispano newspaper and even offered to to an interview about the UFIRE organization. I traded contact information with them and thought the issue was finished.
I was surprised the next morning to see a Tribune article about this and mis-construing what was said. That led to a church public chastisement against UFIRE and led to the bill dying on the House calendar.
I am troubled by this issue still, especially after the events of this past Utah legislative session (2008) where Michael Clara made public statements that aired on KSL invoking the name of the church and its leaders in openly supporting illegal immigration. Similar statements were made by elder Marlin K. Jensen at a public forum.
There were no public pronouncements by the church reminding these men about a neutrality stance. I actually phoned the church public relations office to inquire about the accuracy of both statements and was told that both men were wrong and did not accurately represent the church position on this issue. However, I was told to no expect any sort of public announcement. I was encouraged to spread the word among my acquaintances instead.
It would appear that the church is not ready to make a public statement either way, but they seem to be leaning towards supporting illegal immigrants.
Posted by: Darren | Mar 14, 2008 12:47:30 AM
