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School Prayer Debates
The debate over prayer in school is still going on strong, both here in the US and in other countries.
I'm having a hard time getting worked up about it, though. The issue isn't about whether children should have the right to pray in school, because they already do. Kids can pray anytime they want; during recess, before tests, immediately after being called upon by the teacher to stand in front of the class and recite something they were supposed to have memorized yesterday, etc... What the debate is about, of course, is organized prayer in schools, but it's the organization itself that leads to problems. Which religion should be the driving force behind school prayer. Should everyone take turns? It can't be a strictly Christian prayer because there will always be non-Christians present, but, of course, the same logic can be applied to non-Christian prayers. What happens is the actual prayer and/or spiritual lesson gets watered down so much it's of no real spiritual value to anyone.
It's like having to cook ONE meal for one person who only eats Chinese food, one who only eats Mexican, and one who only eats Italian. You can't cook traditional Chinese food nor add the traditional Chinese spices because the Mexican and Italian guys won't eat it. You can't add Mexican flavorings either, because the Chinese guy won't eat it, and so on. What you're left with is, well, white rice and some plain bread which everyone will eat, but no one's really happy about.
The fact is, a child who is strong in his/her faith and receives spiritual guidance at home and at church will not need nor receive anything from any kind of school prayer. A child without strong religious guidance outside of school won't receive enough of anything of value at school to have any spiritual impact anyway. So what's the point of school prayer, then? All it seems to be doing is reinforcing the already significant divisions between the religious and secular world, and forcing (rather than inviting) non-religious children to participate in things they are not accustomed nor prepared for.
March 9, 2004 in Religion | Permalink
Comments
Screw you, your a bad debater and children should have the right to pray whether its organized or not.
Posted by: Katherine | Apr 30, 2004 3:23:32 PM
Screw you, your a bad debater and children should have the right to pray whether its organized or not.
Posted by: Katherine | Apr 30, 2004 3:23:41 PM
Screw you, your a bad debater and children should have the right to pray whether its organized or not.
Posted by: Katherine | Apr 30, 2004 3:23:50 PM
Um...children DO have the right to pray in school already--that's my point.
I try to improve my 'debating' skills just for you, Katherine...not everyone can make as logically compelling and airtight arguments as you can! :)
Posted by: The Baron | May 1, 2004 2:32:16 PM
I think this person has it right. What is the value to a prayer that is so watered down, there is nothing there? Children have the right to pray whenever they want, just not organized. The parents should teach the kids at home, so they can do it the right way, whenever they want.
Posted by: Ashley Kindrick | Oct 27, 2004 8:49:12 PM
i am doing a debate in my political science class and decided to wait till the last minute to choose and had no choice but to go with the pro side in this debacle. from the research i have done it makes me want to switch sides on this debate. It has also opened my mind a little more to this topic. I do not fully support the organized prayer in school because the fact that it is forced. Why should people be forced to do something? But maybe there can be a time set up during the day for kids to go and do this but only if they wish to. Prayer in school can erupt in violence and probably will i mean look at the war we are fighting right now, it is driven by religion. Now take for example civil rights and the integration of schools. Many people belived that it would not work and they did not want their kids to go to school with kids of other races. Did it work? yes look at our schools today, they are filled with diversity even our daily jobs, none of this would have been possible with taking a risk. anyways i kind of got side tracked but i would also like to add that the kind of attitude that kathirine seems to be putting out is not helping the pro side at all, if you use anger to achieve something you will only recieve it. thank you for your time and hopefully i can utilize your comments for my debate.
Posted by: Ryan Weaver | Dec 2, 2004 2:16:37 PM
you are both wrong
Posted by: Jennie Lynn Heetin | Jan 14, 2005 8:08:11 AM
Jesus gave his life on the cross for u and me how could u just turn ur back on him all of you are going to h***.
Posted by: Melinda , Karen & Sheneiqua | Jan 21, 2005 12:50:49 PM
I enjoyed reading your thoughts regarding [organized] prayer in schools, and thought you made some good points.
I have found that reinstating prayer in schools just mutates the original meaning of prayer.
Is not the true meaning of prayer demolished when it is mandatory, institutional, and above all forced?
I, myself, am a born again Christian, and believe prayer in schools is not reaching out to others, but only pushing them further away, due to the fact that is in a sense- forceful. If prayer is 'put' into schools, there will certainly be religions that are made minority.
A student is able to witness, or pray with another as long as it is not disruptive. I can remember praying numerous times, in numerous places when I was in highschool, and even attended a before-school Christian worship, in my history classroom.
Posted by: Maria | Feb 4, 2005 9:28:09 PM
Prayer in school. Let me say I believe that prayer in school should be allowed. Religious pursecution was what our country was founded on, people fleeing the brutality of the British religious revolution. Prayer and God were taught in the schools during the Revolutionary war and before then and even after the war. Sometime between then and now it has become a bad joojoo to pray in school. I say if you are religious at all, even if you are not religious every single one of us should be on our knees praying morning, afternoon, evening and night. In our society here in America we have violence, torture, rape, kidnapping, pornography, and a meriad of other things that make God very unhappy. In the bible it says that we should pray without siezing. I believe that there should be any kind of prayer in school, allow the prayer in the homeroom class, for muslims - allow them several homerooms a day so that they can pray in the classroom, allow the jewish a prayer time, allow the christians a prayer time. And for the non-religious allow them a homeroom where they can sit in quiet or whatever they do.
Posted by: Richard | Nov 27, 2005 11:35:17 AM
yeah, that's all well and good but have you considered what a day that would be like? a to-the-word muslim prays 5 times a day. and on top of that, what about the kids who don't want to pray? you think the people who are praying are going to take that lightly? what about the kid who very literally makes up their own religion? the school can't say "no, we don't allow that because its not popular..."
Posted by: Jenny | Jan 10, 2006 8:25:07 AM
It is ashame that this "Greatest Country" on earth can have people from the outside, along with those here as well to complain about the word "God", prayer in school, and even say they don't want the 10 Commandments shown in public which our government falls for it very easily and allow changes to the basic foundation of the common principles in which this country stands upon. It is funny when you wonder when you get rid of these things, you see children going down the drain....basically morals going right out the window. However, for those who wanted to see the 10 Commandments put away from the public eye, are the same ones when someone does something to violate their way of life are quick to jump on the 10 Commandment wagon forgetting that they wanted it gone.
As for prayer in school, there is nothing wrong with it reguardless of your faith. In this country we use the name God in our prayer. You see, you can't go to any other country to change their way of life. Most people wouldn't dare go to China, Middle East, or even in parts of Africa to change people's beliefs. People do it in America because they feel if you complain long enough, you can get the government to change. We do not need to sell ourselves out or we will put our country in jeopardy by constantly trying to please everyone. You have to make a stand on certain issues and this is one of them.
However, there is a flip side to prayer in school when it comes to the bible. When you read in the book of Matthew chapter 6 verse 6 where Jesus states that when you pray, enter into your own closet in "secret".....If the government is going off of this, then they have have open a serious can of worms for themselves...for this will lead into other situations in the bible.
Sincerely
Posted by: Money | Feb 27, 2006 7:57:11 AM
It truly IS a shame that we are forgetting YWHW's laws today! Do you know what? I hear that adulturous women actualy don't HAVE to have abortions at the temples. I even saw a priest wearing 50% cotton clothing, AN ABOMINATION! I hear that people no longer assumed Kings to be imbued with gods divine power over three hundred years ago! My, how our values have gone down the toilet.
I hear that children are spared for their parent's crimes, I hear that bastards are allowed into the high councel, I hear people actualy saying blasphemers will go to heaven, I see peole idolizing "love" and "virtue" above our Lord, I see good christians mixing with so callled "humanist" savages, I hear that we worship GD rather than YWYH, my what a destitute Amalek we live in today
Posted by: selatius | Mar 15, 2006 3:18:50 PM
I just wanted to say to all of you people that are bashing this person because they don't share your point of view. That if you are christians like you say you are you should handle a disagreement with an open mind. I am a christian, and i agree with this person, if you are forced to pray, then it will be watered down. You should do it because you want to, not because you have to. God put us here to free willingly worship him, if he wanted forced worship He'd still only have His angles not us! And He'd want us to show people the right way to go in a loving manner not with hatred...ok well...I sincerely hope that you can change your ways of putting things into a nicer sense. One more thing to think about, more people are hurt by the church than the world, it's sad that something that ultimately destroys you can show more love than that which is supposed to strengthen you
Posted by: Sam | Aug 29, 2006 4:45:34 PM
I want prayer in school. I am in school still and I wish we had it. I would feel safer
Posted by: Jeremiah | Sep 29, 2006 9:50:10 AM
Nowadays Jeremiah I'd wager you're already praying every day that you don't get shot.
Not only would the Mulsims need to have five separate "prayer times" given to them each day, they would need a place to put their prayer rug and face Mecca. Not saying that to put them down, just illustrating another facet of "allowing" time out for prayer. You have to cover everyone or no one.
I went into the public school system just a couple of years after school prayer was banned. From what I've heard school prayer up to that point meant the teacher standing in front of the class leading the children in the Lord's Prayer. I have no problem if that's prayer to you but to others (LDS especially)the Lord's Prayer was Christ teaching the format your prayers should follow.
Posted by: Tom | Oct 10, 2006 12:35:47 PM
I really need help!!!! i am writing my term paper on Prayer in the public school... i have no problem with prayer i just need some reasons why we shouldn't have it.... cause i can't find any
Posted by: william | Feb 27, 2007 12:59:02 PM
this paper has really helped and why are ppl trying to mess with what our forefathers done for us... we came to America to have freedom on religion and why are they trying take it all away from where it all began... Everyone should fear God... you don't never know what he can put in front of you!!!
Posted by: william | Feb 27, 2007 1:02:56 PM
im in high school and the problem with organized prayer is when an athority figure gives a prayer it singles out people who are differant wich is what people dont whant to do. so they dont and i think its right in a sense, becuase if they try to please everyone then it becomes watered down and meaningless to others. so if they whoevere they are are devot in there religion will pray by themself or with friends and doing so solves it if there going to pray there is nothing to stop them.
Posted by: andy | Mar 15, 2007 11:24:53 AM
im in high school and the problem with organized prayer is when an athority figure gives a prayer it singles out people who are differant wich is what people dont whant to do. so they dont and i think its right in a sense, becuase if they try to please everyone then it becomes watered down and meaningless to others. so if they whoevere they are are devot in there religion will pray by themself or with friends and doing so solves it if there going to pray there is nothing to stop them.
Posted by: andy | Mar 15, 2007 11:24:55 AM
I think it's revealing that the reality of organized school prayer is anything BUT spiritual. There is a backlash in America against the increasingly pluralistic society we have become. That is the motivation behind those who seek organized school prayer, as an institutionalized smack-down of those who are of other beliefs or cultures, that they do not belong and are somehow less equal.
Christ warned of these people several times. They are the false prophets dressed in sheeps clothing he spoke of in Matthew 7:15.
Posted by: jake | Mar 26, 2007 6:29:39 AM
i think that prayer in school should be allowed in school. by allowing students to pray in school is simply a way to express themselves. i am not saying that a teacher should stand up and lead students in prayer. i just think that it should be offered to students. other relions can do what they do to worship there god.
Posted by: Gretchen | Mar 27, 2007 5:21:40 PM
