« Weird Utah Statistics Part 3 | Main | Happy Thoughts--April 19, 2004 »

Mandatory Polygamy Post

Silly me...I forgot that running a Church-based blog I'm required by law to post something on polygamy...

(Note: this post inspired in part by a discussion currently going on at Bcc:)

Many people assume that if the law were ever changed to legalize plural marriages, the LDS Church would change positions immediately and start practicing polygamy again. I'm not so sure that would be the case. Imagine the situation where polygamy becomes legal but the Church says no, church members still cannot marry more than one person on penalty of excommunication (the current position, essentially...) Wouldn't that make a clear and bold statement not only to non-members about the Church's feelings about its past, but also a signal to members that they're supposed to be following the will of the Lord (which is and always has been 'no polygamy, unless directly specified otherwise'--see Jacob 2), not follow whatever the secular law allows. Imagine especially the situation where the laws allowing polygamy come about as a direct result of the laws allowing gay marriage (a plausible situation, and one that many people maintain would happen). The Church has publicly opposed recognizing gay marriage, and even if it is legalized, certainly won't recognize gay unions as being acceptable, despite the change in legal status. But how then could it turn around and automatically embrace legalized polygamy if it was obtained in exactly the same way--i.e. as an extension of the same law or court decision? The Church would be seen as opportunistic hypocrites who were taking advantage of a law they actively opposed for years. I can't see any way the Church will willingly take that kind of PR hit, and that's even assuming the general church membership wants or would accept polygamy back (which is very debatable...see below)

I guess the answer to the question lies in why you think polygamy existed in the early Church in the first place?

It wasn't God's commandment at all; just something Joseph Smith and/or others thought up on their own: In that case, there's no reason to think the Church leaders of today would embrace polygamy even if legalized, right?

It was a test of the early Church members: But, if polygamy is legalized, instituting it again in the Church wouldn't be much of a test, would it? Actually. the Church saying no even if the law said yes as above would provide a much better test of faith for church members (assuming Church members need more testing in this day and age...)

It was God's method of allowing early Church sisters the opportunity to obtain the blessings of motherhood and celestial marriage, since there weren't enough faithful men to go around: This is still true today as regardless of what area of the world you look at, you'll find more faithful sisters than elders. Church leaders have stressed for years, though, that single sisters who never get a chance for marriage in this life will still have the opportunity for children and celestial marriage in the next. (The same would be true of single sisters 150 years ago, of course, but times are different now. A single sister today has many opportunities for a career and an independant life, even adopting kids of her own without needing a husband. A pioneer-era sister had no such opportunity, and life without a husband was much more brutal. I'm not convinced secular issues such as support structure for single or widowed pioneer women didn't play a large part in the purpose behind early Church polygamy...)

In any case, I'm not convinced polygamy will be coming back into the Church any time soon, regardless of what happens in the law...

One more note: can we put to rest the notion that men have an inherent wish for multiple wives? Is there any evidence that early Church brethren entered into polygamous marriages because they kept finding girls who were better looking than the ones they already had? Is there any evidence that early Church leaders married for looks at all? (Mark Twain famously wrote after visiting Utah that Mormon women were so ugly that polygamy was an act of charity. That may be exaggerating (as Twain was wont to do), but after seeing some pictures of 19th century polygamous families (and some modern day fundamentalist ones) in Utah myself, well... I wouldn't necessarily use the word 'ugly', but let's just say I saw no evidence to suggest that beauty was a motive at all in their plural marriages.) People seem to think having multiple wives means the husband gets four additional young, thin supermodels to share his bed with, but that's hardly the case. And even if it was, there's a big difference between having extra mistresses to sleep with and then forget about (an attractive option for the 'natural man', perhaps), and having actual 'wives' whom, of course, you have to live with and support financially for the rest of their lives (not to mention the children too). Isn't it possible that this isn't quite as attractive a proposition for most men as people make it sound? Isn't it possible that the majority of the church brethren who had multiple wives didn't agree to do so because of their hormones, but rather out of responsibility and obedience? (People tend to laugh derisively at accounts that early Church men were 'reluctant' to take more than one wife--again, making the assumption that plural wives = supermodels whom you could fool around with and then leave...) I don't think the reintroduction of polygamy would be welcome by the majority of the men or the women of the Church...

April 14, 2004 in Religion | Permalink

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/18231/633145

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Mandatory Polygamy Post:

Comments

Here's the full quote from Twain (from his book "Roughing It"), if anyone's interested:

"My heart was wiser than my head. It warmed toward these poor, ungainly and pathetically homely' creatures, and as I turned to hide the generous moisture in my eyes, I said, No' – the man that marries one of them has done an act of Christian charity which entitles him to the kindly applause of mankind, not their harsh censure – and the man that marries sixty of them has done a deed of open-handed generosity so sublime that the nations should stand uncovered in his presence and worship in silence."

Posted by: The Baron | Apr 14, 2004 3:30:27 PM

I don't know if it's required that you post about polygamy so much as it's expected that you post about it.

I don't know that it's assumed that all men want multiple wives exactly. I think it's just assumed that all men want to have sex with as many women as possible. And having a church officially sanction such desires is just seen as icing on the cake for (what is assumed to be) the sterotypical male.

Posted by: Jan | Apr 15, 2004 1:53:57 PM

I know...I was being facetious with the 'required by law' part. Just joking that it wouldn't be a 'real' Church blog without posting on polygamy sometime...

>>"I think it's just assumed that all men want to have sex with as many women as possible"<<

As many BEAUTIFUL women as possible, perhaps--that's my point. I don't believe the average husband would jump at the chance to have sex with someone who wasn't significantly more attractive than the wife he already had, just for the sake of sleeping with someone DIFFERENT. (There are exceptions, of course...) Especially when it wasn't a 'free sex' situation, but involved financial and emotional support for a long time (the 'commitment' part, essentially...)

I'm sure there were a few men who were secretly jumping for joy inside at the idea of Church-sanctioned polygamy, and even more who liked the 'status' having many wives brought (without any regard for sex whatsoever), but I still think polygamy is one of those things that sounds great when you first hear about it, but becomes much less attractive when you put a moment's thought into what it would actually be like. I still believe the number of men who were really happy and enthusiastic about polygamy was small then, and would be today also if plural marriage returned...

Posted by: The Baron | Apr 15, 2004 2:57:12 PM

Yes Baron, that's a theme I push a lot--that modern Mormons have no clue about what real polygamy was (or would be) like. Instead, each dreams up a sort of "fantasy polygamy" that they then defend as if it were what really went on.

While Kaimi got a lot of flak for his post over at Bcc, I think he was right that 21st-century courtship and marriage is so much more romantic (i.e., finding your soul mate kind of stuff) that polygamy is not at all a good fit. On the other hand, there are "Mormon fundamentalists" who make it work in the modern world. I'm not sure how well it can be said to work, though.

Posted by: Dave | Apr 16, 2004 5:48:37 PM

Nice post, Kevin. Again, I agree with you that it's not about sexual promiscuity. But I still hold that there are a few in the church that would want to do this, motivated spiritually, as are so many splinter groups today.

Posted by: Ryan Bell | Aug 4, 2004 2:27:06 PM

Yeah, yeah, this is an old topic, but I just found the site today. One comment puh-leeze: in my days in the singles ward, I found plenty of brothers who hadn't successfully managed to deal with ONE wife. What makes you guys think you can keep TWO happy?

Posted by: Space Chick | Mar 9, 2005 4:38:44 PM

If you will study it out; i.e. Joseph Smith, Orson Pratt, Heber C. Kimball, Brigham Young, Parley P. Pratt, John Taylor, etc., then you will know WHY it was established. However, leaving the LDS church, and the Temple, for pluaral marriage and other doctrine, is a bad move. The temple is the main gate to exhaltation, without the sealing power and other blessings and ordinances found in the temple you are not going to put together an eternal family.

I know, the break-off groups say that the Church has lost it's authority. They are wrong, "By their fruits ye shall know them." The LDS Church has the large delicious fruit weighing down all the branches of the tree. Compare and see. I know several polygamists, all of which are very good people. There motivations are based on strong spritual convictions. They are better people than many main stream LDS people I know. However, they are "jumping the gun." They know that plural marriage is important but they can't believe that God would allow it to go away for a time. The problem with most people is that they make hasty decisions. The answers are there if we will study and ask.

Plural marriage is an important principle of the full gospel that Joseph Smith restored to the earth. He did not do it just for his own gratification. This one principle caused more pain, suffering, death, destruction, appostacy, etc. in the church than any other thing. Why would he do something to tear down the one thing he gave his life to build up?

This principle will be practiced within the church again. It will be soon, but that is a relative term. However, just because it becomes legal won't mean that the Church will immediatly teach it. Glaciers (i.e. the Church) move very slowly.

On the sexual side of things, if you are a man and you are married you didn't get married for bills, a mortgage, kids, mini-van, etc. You got married for the sex and romance, God set it up this way. He knew that as adventurous as men are they wouldn't do it any other way, and He's right. How many men would knowingly agree to changing diapers, driving mini-vans,and taking out a thirty year mortgage? In addition, marriage to one woman is not an easy undertaking, and pluaral marriage magnifies that drasticlly (i.e. more of all the things that most guys dislike). Sooo, God will use a man's natural desire to procreate to do His will with plural marriage as well. And, just as one righteous wife with a properly raised family is the nucleous of one's kingdom, adding to that magnifies it exponentialy (see Orson Pratt).

Posted by: Searcher | Apr 14, 2005 2:17:00 AM

I am a member of the LDS church. My wife and I have been members for the last 3yrs. We were discusing polygamy the other day, and she said she was fine with it. Less presure on her to maintain the home and some one to help look after me. (according to her I'm high maintance). But I quickly informed her, she is more than enough. I mean have you ever seen your wife/girlfriend on a bad day? Can you imagine two or three of them on a bad day at the same time? No thanks I've got my hands full with one wife.
That's just my opinion ofcourse.

Posted by: Dave Z | Mar 14, 2006 6:58:04 AM

There is beauty in polygamy!

www.myspace.com/4polygamy

The fact of the matter is Monogamy is not natural and is an adopted way of life. Polygamy is natural and rewarding satisfying the nature of both Men and women.

What I mean by natural… Have you ever seen a lion that decided that it is not going to hunt deer? NO! EXACTLY! Because it is not natural to go against its natural instinct to hunt! Have you ever considered it? A lion’s natural instinct is to attack a deer for nourishment, food etc. It is its natural way of life. Men are by nature polygamous, it is their natural way of life. Women are by nature Monogamous, it is our natural way of life, and these are merely facts. It is sad that nearly 80% of marriages end in divorce because of this very misunderstanding. The results are both men and women end up unhappy because of the blatant disregard of their nature. All races of working men, business men, family men, clergy men, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, religious leaders etc… all are affected by the results of unhappiness… unhappy relationships, marriages and divorce. How many times must history repeat itself?

Polygamy is a way of life that nurtures the emotional, physical, financial and mental support that you cannot find or get in a monogamous relationship.

How many countless times have you heard stories from girlfriends and female associates about men and the “other woman” that they busted them with? This woman feels betrayed, bamboozled and vulnerable thinking “why me”. Didn’t she treat him well, wasn’t she a good woman to him. Thus we create words like “He is a dog, He is a cheater”. Nevertheless you see these women suffering and crying from the same false fairy tale that they are trying to make reality-- that there is one man for every woman. I often ask myself if that was the case then why by design has our creator provided many women for every one man in terms of ratios. We are as children spoon-fed the theories of “the White house picket fence”, “Mr. Right”, “till death do us part” ideology of marriage. Generation after generation, only to be disappointed and hurt with the truth and reality of the today!

A married man will often at times desire the companionship of more than one woman. This very man will go to great lengths to avoid loosing, hurting and allowing his current wife or shall I say first wife to find out. Only to possibly loose them both in the end because it is not permitted by “Man’s law” for him to love and share love for the rest of his life with both or more than one wife… his nature.

All of the time that it took to cultivate each relationship, the old one and the new one with his second wife (he already considers his second love to be a love of marriage) has to end with everyone hurt and betrayed all because of this misunderstandings.

Men are then forced to run in the shadows and have short term, undetected relationships with women whether it is at work, strip clubs, planned night outings or weekend outings. Woman are always wondering, always thinking and plotting on catching him with his next “mistress” which leads to blatant mistrust and anxiety whenever he is out of your presence. Men are left to contend with only the possibilities of him taking on a “mistress.” This mistress will never see the light of day with him, never be allowed to love this good man fully and will always think that today may be the day that he calls it quits because of his love for his wife. Forcing her (his so called mistress) to suppress her feelings never having the opportunity to be with a good man or more importantly force the both of them to suppress their love for one another. Everybody looses!

Polygamy allows the first Wife who is already satisfied and happy when she did not “factually” know that another relationship was being cultivated -- to allow the “other woman or mistress” to express her love openly and with out guilt of destroying another person’s life and to be treated equally. Equal housing, equal days shared and a life that is not filled with unrealistic expectations. Polygamous relationships are almost always until death do us part. They are designed to be healthy and fair satisfying both the woman’s nature to be monogamous (with only one man) and the Man’s polygamous nature (more than one woman). Everybody is happy and receives what they need. This is not to say that there are not any problems. You see you have all of the dynamics of a monogamous relationship. You have children, birthdays, family events, family meetings and oh yes jealousy.

Now remember we are talking about the nature of life and what polygamy was designed to do; that is satisfying the natural instincts of both men and women alike. Of course there will always be a few immature individuals that spoil it for us all… looking to capitalize on any situation. However, Polygamy is indeed a beautiful thing that holds a lot of responsibility especially for the husband, which is why it is not for everyone!

The man has to be equal, allowing equal time with each wife. He has to be fair and he has to deal with the emotion (and boy do we pack a punch) of each personality of each and every woman. I would not want to be him!

In my opinion the benefit of polygamy for a woman outweighs any negatives. It is easier for me to get along with my sister-wives. As a woman we naturally seek companionship with other women… going shopping, food shopping, seeking advice when raising and rearing children as well as other things like what to wear or relationship advice. This sister wife or sister-wives will in-turn become my/your most trusted girlfriends. Each with a different personality complimenting mine yet similarities that reflect why I believe my husband has fallen in love with them. They will support you, be passionate about your decisions, beliefs and love you unconditionally. Yeah almost like the sister you have or never had as in my case.

It is a sin in my opinion to want another woman to suffer the long road of scorn and loneliness just because “I got to him first.” The desire to have the other person or “mistress” treated like dirt on the bottom of your shoe is in-humane. “I will be with him on all holidays and you can just stay at home and cry and wish you were me”.


The Natural desires of a man should be considered. Trying to make him more like us and suppress his natural desires and abilities has backfired for centuries. The natural desires of a responsible mature man should be supported, nurtured and understood…

Just imagine living with your husband and sitting down and talking with him about someone who he finds attractive and keep in mind that he is brining it to you once he has the feeling and not behind your back. You know that thing we always scream for “brutal truth and honesty!”

Well then imagine being the first wife and accepting him courting her and her having a better life instead of wishing her to be alone or dead. Who is a better man than him! Does she deserve less than him… the man that is king in your eyes, house and throne? That would be you wishing her harm. You will then gain a friend oh yes someone to help with the chores. Giving you more time with your husband for courting and love... the intimate kind of love that you once shared and should always share. This will also give you time to keep up your appearance and take time for yourself. Well then you say what about jealousy. Well you are jealous of him and his boys, him and his family, him and his mom, his time with his cars and his time with anything else but you. Jealously is a part of our NATURE. It is not necessarily that you are jealous of the other woman but more so about your own insecurities.

Before I go any further I should let you know that these are all facts… yes I lived it and am living it now so I can tell you about jealousy, insecurity, crying, laughing, working out problems, not being alone transitioning to feeling that I am the most fortunate woman in the world!


So let’s continue the story. So now there are two of you and you have grown with each other. You are use to her long her, your short hair, her thin body your bold curves, her attitude, her laughter and you have that schedule down pack of “OK you see him on Monday Tuesday and Wednesday and I will see him on Thursday Friday and Saturday, s And on your days off you will do the food shopping and cook and I will do the same on my days off.” Then it hits you -- He wants to sit down with his first and second wife to talk about a third.

Your mind starts racing on the same things... this time it is two of you asking the same questions… but suddenly or rather not so suddenly you both come to the same conclusion that this is purely beneficial to us all.

Just as a mother can have and love more than one child equally and unconditionally wanting to grow old with their love, so can a man who loves more than one wife. If a mother decides to have another child it will not be a threat to her existing children or child in any way but an enhancement, adding more love to the family. Another addition to the family adds more dynamics, more responsibilities and drama BUT IT IS ALL WORTH IT.

A sister-wife is simply another woman longing to have or share the same fortunate love of this great man that you have been blessed to find. I rather have her loved by him that lonely and destructive always searching for a soul mate – No matter how many wives. So in closing ladies… POLYGAMY enhances the very nature in which we were all created… lionesses holding the fort with our king. We are the pillars of the family, the nurturers, and the glue that hold the family together.

Love is unconditional, love is full of surprises, love is heartache and love is forgiveness. Love is the intimate sharing between two loved ones, love is forever… till death do us part. I know that he will never leave me… maybe I will gain another friend, loved one or someone who has got my back but I will never loose him, never loose his love and NEVER BE ALONE -- Now that is the security that enhances me in POLYGAMY!


More to come on my experience and facts on a harmonious household and how I deal with all of the natural obstacles that you will find in both a long term monogamous relationship as well as polygamous ones…


For those women that have not reached this level of self-awareness and consciousness to understand what I have written… This truth is not yet for you!

Peace is where you find it!

Yaminah
www.myspace.com/4polygamy

Posted by: yaminah | Aug 7, 2007 1:33:01 PM

Why not let the women decide? What about if some wome prefer to share one alpha male than being the only one for a loser?

Posted by: Jim Thio | Sep 18, 2007 10:01:04 AM

Post a comment