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White men and Asian women
Volokh has a post about the 'tradition' that men like Asian women particularly more than other women because of the stereotype that Asian women are more 'submissive' and 'deferential'. As a card-carrying member of the 'White-Guys-With-Chinese-Wives' Club, perhaps it's appropriate for me to comment.
I've heard this 'stereotype' before also, but I'm not sure it has any basis any more than Volokh does. It's not true of the Baroness, nor any of the other Asian girls I knew/dated before her. A quick look at all the other members of the 'Club' we're friends with over the weekend didn't come up with any example of a wife that fit the stereotype--even with the thought that marriages between Church members might have a tendency to be more 'conservative' in nature as it is.
Allow me to suggest that the attraction many men feel towards Asian women has nothing to do with personality and 'submissiveness', but really is just about the looks. Generally speaking, Asian women:
(a) are thinner than their American/European counterparts
(b) have a 'smoothness' to their appearance that can't quite be duplicated (this is mostly due to the lack of hair. The Baroness was the envy of her roommates before we got married because she never has to shave her legs or armpits...)
(c) age better, looking often five to ten years younger than their actual age.
(d) have a certain 'exoticness' about them which is hard to quantify.
Of course, no one is perfect: Asian women tend to be shorter, have little variety in hair color, etc... It all depends on what the guy likes, of course. I may not be a good example because I speak Chinese and thus would be more likely to have a relationship with a Chinese girl regardless of what they look like, but I wouldn't be surprised if a survey of men from all races showed Asian women ranked higher in the 'looks' category than other races.
The lesson is? Men are pretty much just as shallow as you think they are, I guess...
Note: The Baroness (a Taiwanese native) has a different take--she says if you look at certain parts of Asia, the rural areas of mainland China and Korea for example, you'll find the 'submissive' cultural role of wives is still a factor. She says many Taiwanese men prefer mainland women for just that reason (Taiwan women tending to be more independant and career-oriented). Mainland women in return tend to like Taiwanese men because they're richer than mainland men--so I guess everyone's happy...
UPDATE (July 21): I've turned off comments for this post--nothing to do with any commenter in particular, I just think this subject has run its course and it's time to go on to something else...
May 3, 2004 in Current Affairs | Permalink
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Comments
At the risk of sounding racist, I've only been attracted to Caucasian girls/women. Actually, that's not entirely correct. There was a time when I was attracted to Latino women, but I think that was just because I wanted to marry a wife who made tacos and burritos all the time.
Posted by: Kim Siever | May 3, 2004 8:12:44 AM
Actually, this point was mentioned also in the Volokh post I linked to--whether extreme differences in the 'attractiveness' of different races are essentially 'racist'.
I myself am 'racist' in this area also--generally speaking, I really don't find black women to be that attractive. If you take two or three of the upper echelon of women looks-wise for each race and compared them:
For example,
Gong Li, Zhang Zi-Yi, Kelly Hu, Faye Wong for Asians
Rosalyn Sanchez, Penelope Cruz, Salma Hayek for Hispanics
Nicole Kidman, Monica Bellucci, and--I don't know--Eliza Cuthbert for whites
Halle Berry, Beyonce, and Thandie Newton for blacks
For me I'd rank them in the order I listed them: Asians, Hispanics, Whites, and Blacks. What that says about me and any such 'latent prejudices' within me, I don't know. I would think, though, the rankings for me or anyone else don't have any deep psychological meaning (such as I subconsciously hate blacks)--just reflect personal preference.
I wonder if anyone has performed a similar 'survey' of men and categorized their preferences by race. Maybe I'll look into that...
Posted by: The Baron | May 3, 2004 3:56:02 PM
Hey... I'm also a card-carrying member of the White-guys-with-a-Chinese-wife club.
There was an interesting article I read once about trends in interracial dating and marriage. The article stated that Asians (in general) are considered to be more feminine in their appearance and African-Americans to be the most masculine in appearance, overall.
Men are often attracted to those who are most feminine and women are often attracted to those who are most masculine. So, when it comes to interracial marriages (hopefully this analogy will help) you will often see an African-American man with an Asian wife but it's much rarer to find an African-American woman with an Asian husband.
Posted by: danithew | May 21, 2004 8:11:57 AM
I find all of these comments quite interesting. It disturbs me that Americans are so hung up on race and who would make a perfect mate. Its also sad that in the 21st century, the black female in the "white-American psyche," is deemed masculine as opposed to feminine. What is more interesting is that the individual that rated attractive black women, rated African-American women that were light skinned. What does this tell you about American society...color will always be an issue. I suppose that if you mentioned an African-American woman with darker features, she would be labeled masculine as opposed to feminine.
Posted by: Lisa | Jun 16, 2004 4:38:00 PM
"What is more interesting is that the individual that rated attractive black women, rated African-American women that were light skinned..."
You're probably referring to me...
The three I listed are somewhat light-skinned (not that you'd mistake them for whites, though)--but that's true for virtually all famous black women who are considered good looking by black men even. I can't think of any model/actress type who is 'really' dark-skinned yet also makes the list of black men's 50 best looking... I think somewhat light-skinned black women are the 'in' thing no matter what race you are.
Also, as mentioned, I don't believe a statement such as 'I don't find black women attractive' is inherently racist. Discriminatory, sure. But no more than saying 'I don't find short or fat or older women attractive'. Attractiveness can't really be forced. Although I admit black women and Asian men seem to be at the low end on the totem pole as far as attention...
Posted by: The Baron | Jun 17, 2004 7:44:24 AM
Attractiveness comes in all races. I feel that most Asian women who only date and marry White men, are ashamed of their physical features, and Asian culture. This is a form of self hatred towards their race; which prompt them to assimilate to the white culture. White men have always been elevated at a higher echelon than men of color. All you have to do, is look at your magazines, and at the television. The white male is portrait as being more educated, wealthy, and physically attractive, than men of color. So naturally, Asian women will go to the white man. No one should deny dating or marrying someone, because of the color of their skin. This also pertains to establishing a friendship with one of another race or culture.
Posted by: Anthony | Jun 22, 2004 2:13:47 AM
Um...half of your post contradicts the other half.
Let's see...if my wife refused to marry me because I'm not Asian, that shows she respects her culture and loves herself. Yet if I refused to date or marry HER because she's not white, that makes me a racist? So, is it okay to date and marry someone not of your race or not? I mean, 'attractiveness comes in all races', right?
Posted by: The Baron | Jun 22, 2004 11:29:04 AM
Please, critically read my statement again from June 22. 2004.
Posted by: Anthony | Jun 26, 2004 9:10:33 AM
I did...
It's okay for my Asian wife to have refused to date non-Asians...
But it's NOT okay for me to have refused to date non-whites.
If I'm missing something, you'd better explain...
Posted by: The Baron | Jun 27, 2004 9:35:32 PM
Young man, You know that you are a white racist, and you want to prove how liberal you are, just because your married to an asian woman. Come on Mr. Baron! Tell the truth, spill you guts. It's a good therapy treatment, and you'll sleep better at night or in the day. Have a nice day, Mr. Baron
Posted by: Anthony | Jun 29, 2004 4:18:37 PM
Here's a link to a National-Review article -- this looks like it could be the one I had read. Let's see if I can get the html coded correctly so it actually shows up as a link:
Is Love Colorblind?
Posted by: danithew | Jul 3, 2004 9:32:29 AM
Bah... it appears I failed. So here's the addy:
http://www.isteve.com/IsLoveColorblind.htm
I'll have to work on my html commenting skills.
Posted by: danithew | Jul 3, 2004 9:33:31 AM
I don't think it's racist at all to have a preference. Everyone has a preference, surely even Anthony.
Posted by: Steph | Jul 4, 2004 11:41:11 AM
Please, sir or madam, don't use the word everyone!You don't know everyone. And I wish the many prejudice, racist, bigoted people, stop pretending to be color blind. You know that a persons race, and culture determines if you would date, marry, or befriend an individual. Don't give me that "crap," about preference. Thats just a word that you use to justify your racism, and bigotry. My advice is, stop being so "arrogant," and go out into your community and learn about different cultures, and races. If this is not possible, go do some traveling. Thank you, Anthony
Posted by: Anthony | Jul 7, 2004 6:11:59 AM
I am not your avg. chinese guy as I am 6'2 200 lbs - born and raised in a small blue collar logging town in northern canada. Since I grew around rednecks all my life, I can understand why all you white guys think asian girls are submissive.
However, let me offer this up....We all know white girls love the macho bad boy stereotype, but on the flipside - most if not all asian girls prefer the smart educated, honest, kind and gentlemanly good ol white boy. That means "white College nerds" do not have any problem picking up asian chicks - especially if you drive a decent car, polite, respectful and open minded of their family and culture.
Let me just state one more generalization - asian women take better care of their boyfriends/husbands. They will help you save every fricken penny. While other girls will bleed you dry.
Interacial marriages work because most of these women are harder working, more loyal -never stray, and are extremely committed to having a successful relationship.
Despite the overwhelming fact that asian men are decent, polite, career minded, hard working, caring human beings; most attractive white girls would never give us guys a chance. Mind you, I have a hot date tommorrow with a hot looking Czech girl - wish me luck!
Posted by: Justin | Jul 7, 2004 10:52:22 PM
One last tip for all you white pervs looking to score with asian chix - try washing your hands when you got to the can.
Posted by: Justin | Jul 7, 2004 11:00:08 PM
Justin, Please heed to my statement from July 4. Your thinking is immature, and stupid. Venuture out of Canada, and go do some traveling. You seem to lack culture, and the understanding of people. If you would like, come to Sacramento, California, and will teach you about different races, and cultures. It's never too late to learn.
Posted by: Anthony | Jul 13, 2004 12:29:40 AM
Wow..you guys think Asian women are submissive. Yes, it is the role that we play to get our man and yes men fall for the role. You have to think most Asian women come from 3rd world countries take China, Thailand, Taiwan.. women are prostituting themselves to put food on the table and yes when they find a foreigner who is going to take care of them he is basically not marry her but her family because he is the financial support for she and her family. A good woman will take care of her man. It doesn't matter if she's Asian, Hispanic, African American, Caucasian. Asian women just know how to play the role of submission (geishas) to get the things they need.
Posted by: Carla | Jul 15, 2004 12:19:38 AM
Being Asian, most people associate our beauty with being thin, small frames and petiteness. As for aging, well yes we look young up until a certain age. Notice that an elder Asian person always looks their age or even older. Asians don't sustain a youth look past their 40's. When we break in apperance, we break.
Posted by: carlacane | Jul 15, 2004 12:25:21 AM
My question to the Asian females who are viewing this site, why do most Asian females prefer to date and marry White men? I'm a Black male, and I have always been intrigued by this subject. The smart thing to do in life, is to go to the source, and have a discussion about racial topics. Be truthful and say whats on your mind. I could be wrong or right about my views, but the fact of matter is, these are just my views, which are obtained from my interacting with males and females of different races. My father was in the Air Force for twenty years, and I was in the Navy and Army, and this experience gave me the oppurtunity to live in different communities, and befriend and meet different races. I feel that if most people could have this experience, there would be a lot less racism and prejudice in our society.
Posted by: Anthony | Jul 15, 2004 8:48:37 AM
I'm an Asian female and I admit that most of my Asian female friends tend to have white boyfriends and husbands. But I also have tons of Asian girl friends who don't want to have anything to do with white men. Can you guys stop the stereotype? It's time to grow. Stereotype only has a little small grain of truth.
Posted by: Yukimi | Jul 18, 2004 8:04:46 PM
Yukimi, The fact is, most asian women date and marry white men. This is a truthful statistic. You don't have to believe me, just look it up. I don't stereotype. I go on the facts, and what I see. It's time to grow when people talk and have a meaningful dialogue, rather than avoid talking about racial and cultural issues. Nobody needs to stop writing their opinion. All you can go is agree or disagree.
Posted by: Anthony | Jul 19, 2004 8:40:18 AM
I am a tall white guy and I think asian women are hottie boom bottie.
I like their curves and their hi yah! spirit.
Thanks!
Posted by: patty o' hatty | Jul 20, 2004 11:50:52 AM
First off, I don't believe in "race"... the only race is the human race. It's such an embarrassment that American is still running 50 years behind, still judging people on arbitrary appearance. There is so much more to life then "looks".
FYI... America is the only country in the world that categorizes people based on appearance. The only other country that did this was Nazi Germany. Boy have we made a bad name for ourselves.
Posted by: Julia | Jul 20, 2004 3:08:57 PM
As far as looks, Asian Women are SEXY! It's all about the eyes and their features. The way they carry themselfs. I'm not saying that all Asian Women are alike, but most of them have a certain unique style. Which is a turn on! What more can I say?
Posted by: Fabyan | Jul 21, 2004 10:55:52 AM
By the way I'm a White Male.
Posted by: Fabyan | Jul 21, 2004 10:58:29 AM
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