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Some things are black and white...
Note: this is not a political blog...although I couldn't let this one pass without comment.
The Iraqi soccer team has had their first opportunity in a long time to participate in the Olympics. More than just 'participate', though, they have in fact exceeded expectations by winning their group with a 2-1 record and earning a spot in the quarterfinals on Sunday.
How do they feel about President Bush and the US invasion, though? Not very happy, that's for sure... (Read the article here)
"Iraq as a team does not want Mr. Bush to use us for the presidential campaign," midfielder Salih Sadir said, referring to recent campaign commercials featuring the Iraqi soccer team playing in the Olympics.
That's okay...nothing wrong with that opinion (although the commercials don't imply that the members of Iraqi soccer team would vote for Bush if given a chance, only that they wouldn't be competing at the Olympics if Saddam was still in power. Is that not a true statement?)
That's not all, though:
"My problems are not with the American people," says Iraqi soccer coach Adnan Hamad. "They are with what America has done in Iraq: destroy everything."
"How will he meet his god having slaughtered so many men and women?" midfielder Ahmed Manajid said, apparently without irony, "He has committed so many crimes." ('He' meaning President Bush, not Saddam Hussein.)
So...do they wish Hussein and his sons were still ruling Iraq, then?
"To a man, members of the Iraqi Olympic delegation say they are glad that former Olympic committee head Uday Hussein, who was responsible for the serial torture of Iraqi athletes and was killed four months after the U.S.-led coalition invaded Iraq in March 2003, is no longer in power."
And yet...
"...they also find it offensive that Bush is using their team for his own gain when they do not support his administration's actions in Iraq....'We don't wish for the presence of Americans in our country.' [says Sadir] 'We want them to go away.'"
Am I the only one that finds this attitude incomprehensible? Does the Iraqi soccer team not realize that there is a direct causal relationship between A and B? Let me state it very simply:
Saddam and his sons are not in power in Iraq anymore BECAUSE George W. Bush and the U.S. invaded.
Let me state that again:
If the U.S. had not invaded, Saddam and his sons would still be ruling Iraq right now, and for many decades in the future as well.
Is this so hard to understand?
Yet, many Iraqis (not to mention Michael Moore and most of the Democrats in America) don't appear to make this connection. They talk about how it's great it is that Saddam and Uday and Qusay aren't in charge anymore in Iraq, yet say the U.S. invasion was a mistake from the beginning and shouldn't have happened--as if those two things are totally independant events. As if there were a variety of other ways Saddam could have been removed from power and President Bush chose the worst one.
Oppose the Iraq invasion? That's fine...but that means you have to accept that this is an either/or situation. There are no other choices.
Either: The U.S. invades Iraq and removes the Hussein family from power
Or: The U.S. does not and the Husseins are still ruling Iraq today
-and-
The U.N. sanctions are still in force, crippling the economy and impoverishing the Iraqi people.
-and-
Saddam continues to sell oil in spite of the sanctions with the help of corrupt members of the U.N. enriching himself while his people starve.
Saying you disapprove of one option means you prefer the other. There's no way around it. Ask yourself this: if, starting today, you and your family had to live in Iraq for the next ten years, which Iraq would you want to live in?
August 19, 2004 in Current Affairs | Permalink
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Comments
It's not that simple at all. The problem is US rule of Iraq is worse than Saddam's rule...any way you look at it (number of people killed per day, lack of food, infrastructure, jobs, things getting destroyed, etc., etc.). So what have they gained by removing Saddam and how is US military rule better?
I'd like it, for example, if Bush were no longer President of the US. However, not if the next regime is worse. Make sense?
Posted by: Another Dreamer | Aug 19, 2004 3:44:33 PM
Actually, Dreamer, your example makes little, if any sense to me. Nobody is saying the situation in Iraq is simple. What I find so ironic about your comment is that you start off by saying "It's not that simple...", and then immediately proceed to grosely over-simplify the situation in Iraq by how you are calculating whether or not Iraq is better off now as opposed to when Saddam ruled the country.
In the short term, yes, Iraq is worse off now than before Saddam ... but it doesn't end there. What about ten years from now? Fifty? It is almost impossible to compare what Iraq will be like 20 years from now with what it would have been, had Saddam remained in power.
Your argument is way too short-sighted. By your logic, the civil war in America was a total disaster because immediately following that war, poverty levels were up, a lot of men had died, and the country was torn apart. You have to keep the long term in mind in order to maintain some perspective.
Posted by: Kevin | Aug 20, 2004 12:53:37 AM
...or Germany and Japan immediately after World War II?
In fact, is there any example in history where a major government change took place without a period of anarchy?
The ultimate success or failure of the Iraq invasion will be determined in 10-20 years, not now...
Posted by: The Baron | Aug 20, 2004 9:18:34 AM
You are arguing the ends justifies the means. The same argument Hitler and Stalin made BTW.
I'm simply not comfortable enough predicting the future to say that killing 10's of thousands of people today is worth it.
Posted by: Another Dreamer | Aug 20, 2004 10:27:33 AM
I never said the ends justified the means. I only pointed out the flawed logic behind your reasoning ... that because Iraq is temporarily worse off now than immediately before the war, that it proves indefinitely the war has been a failure.
You say you aren't comfortable enough predicting the future to say this war was worth it, but as The Baron stated in his original entry, by that choice, you ARE predicting the future - saying that the future is better off by leaving Saddam in power.
You, and a lot of Americans, see the pictures and stories on CNN showing the horrors of war and immediately jump to the conclusion that this war was a mistake. Funny though, how most Americans who feel that this war is wrong based on the number of Iraqi's killed, are more than willing to turn a blind eye to the thousands and thousands of Iraqi's that were killed by Saddam before the war (and many more who would have been tortured or killed had he remained in power) - thereby implying that there's nothing wrong with innocent people dying, as long as it isn't splashed across the front page of the news.
Posted by: Kevin | Aug 20, 2004 1:10:54 PM
Found you via that lefty over at political juice ;-)
To my mind I wondered how representitive the quotes in the article where of all the players. I wondered also what the lives of the players were like pre-liberation. Marie Antoinette didn't really care for the French Revolution I bet. If the players and coaches were favored by the old regime then I'm not surprised that they miss it and don't care for Bush.
Posted by: ed | Aug 21, 2004 10:53:38 AM
Funny though, how most Americans who feel that this war is right based on the number of Iraqi's killed previously, are more than willing to turn a blind eye to the thousands and thousands of Iraqis that were killed by US soldiers during the war - thereby implying that there's nothing wrong with innocent people dying, as long as it is all done by the American military.
The door swings both ways.
The killing of thousands of innocents—whether by so-called freedom fighting Americans or repressive Iraqis—is reprehensible. Period.
Posted by: Kim Siever | Aug 24, 2004 8:50:40 AM
As an event isolated by itself--of course it is...
Just like saying--isolated by itself--the U.S. dropping two atomic bombs on Japan was reprehensible because it killed tens of thousands of innocent Japanese civilians. But what were the other options? Japan wasn't going to surrender through anything other than a total defeat... You either (a) continue fighting amongst the Pacific islands for many years in the future, (b) invade Japan (how many civilians would that have killed?), or (c) 'convince' Japan to surrender by a destructive show of force. Which option really would have led to the least loss of life (American and Japanese)? Events don't happen in a vacuum. Either the U.S. forces Japan to surrender or the war (and loss of life) goes on.
No one says the U.S. hasn't made mistakes in the post-invasion Iraq (well...okay, some people say that, but I don't...), but arguing the U.S. could have invaded without killing ANY civilians is silly, and saying they shouldn't have invaded in the first place to avoid any civilian casualties again presumes that Saddam and his sons ruling Iraq for decades in the future is the preferable alternative--there are no others. Can anyone guarantee that the total loss of life from the invasion and the next 30 years in the new Iraq won't be smaller than the loss of life under the Hussein family for the next 30 years? Again, which Iraq would you rather live in?
Posted by: The Baron | Aug 24, 2004 11:32:31 AM
"The killing of thousands of innocents—whether by so-called freedom fighting Americans or repressive Iraqis—is reprehensible. Period."
And the obvious statement of year award goes to ... Kim!
Posted by: Kevin | Aug 25, 2004 9:01:37 PM
"And the obvious statement of year award goes to ... Kim!"
Thank-you. Thank-you.
I'd like to thank my producer, my manager, my mum, God, and, of course, my only fan...Kevin.
Posted by: Kim Siever | Aug 26, 2004 10:11:21 AM
Wow, I udnerstand completely what everyone is saying, its true hindsight is the only 20/20 vision. My problem is, Bush went into Iraqi with the wrong reason (weapons of mass destruction) I bet America has more weapons of mass destructin then all countries combined. So why couldnt he admit that was a mistake? Bush says he was going over there becuase Iraq was going against the United Nations wish...what did Bush do to go to war???
And my biggest issue is WHO was responsible for Saddam being in power? and knew what he was doing for over a decade? So why now? Why use the label of War on terror? What terror is giong on in Iraqi against us? He is supposed to protect and help our country first and foremost, and this country has PLENTY of issues for anyone in office to fiddle with for 4-8 years. And there was no other option? B.S. Bush didnt care for the other options cause it wouldnt give him leeway to get what he went in there in the first place, oil and to redeem his fathers name. as Eminem has said "Maybe we can reach Al Qaeda through my speech
Let the president answer our high anarchy
Strap him with a AK-47, let him go fight his own war
Let him impress daddy that way
No more blood for oil, we got our own battles to fight on our own soil
No more psychological warfare to trick us to thinking that we ain’t loyal
If we don’t serve our own country, we’re patronizing our hero"
He's not even clear with his plans. We have never heard a clear plan from this administration for ending our presence in Iraq. American's seem to believe whatever the hell is own the news and what people tell them. They are too lazy or ignorant to go out and FIND the truth.they're letting their moral conservative values blind them. Would they still agree with the war if bush wasn't talking all that nonsense about putting his moral values into laws and ammendments? probably not. not only all of this, but the "United States is spending more than $1 billion a week on the war, Bush urged Congress to support his request for an additional $80 billion." -cnn on Speech given by bush. Yet He wants to cut back retirement plans, and take away 140 federal programs? What sense does that make, your country is going to pits because money is an issue, yet your spending 1 BILLION a week to "help" another country. Come on people, get a grip on reality.
Posted by: Caz | Feb 3, 2005 10:52:37 AM