« Conference Aftermath II: The Baron's Guide to Church History | Main | M*: Standards and Idealism »

Conference Aftermath III: Mormons and Catholics

It was probably bad 'timing' for the Pope's death to happen during General Conference weekend, since Utah is the one place where the news from Italy would have stiff competition for headline space.  The media treatment of Pope John Paul II has been almost entirely positive (perhaps surprisingly), demonstrating the axiom that (Hitler excluded), people will tend to emphasize only positive things after someone dies--even from people who rarely mentioned positive things when they were alive... 

The relationship between Mormons and Catholics is a complicated one--hopefully, we've passed the point where Catholics are all part of the 'great and abominable Church' in Mormon eyes.  President Hinckley's tribute to the Pope should put that notion to rest, if it hasn't already... 

In reality, the Catholic Church is probably the closest to the LDS Church in many aspects.  Those churches are really the only two that have a claim to direct authority from Jesus Christ.  (Most Protestant churches don't bother even pretending...)  Both churches have fairly established hierarchies and internal organizations--with all the advantages and disadvantages that brings.

Over the last few years, it is the sexual abuse scandals that have largely defined the Catholic Church--meaning that is the first thing that comes to mind for non-Catholics when the Church is mentioned.  While on a far lesser scale, sexual abuse scandals have also hit the LDS Church, with similar complaints of local leaders trying to ignore or cover up the problem.  Many people have argued that Pope John Paul (and President Hinckley, too) are 'responsible' for the abuses committed by church leaders by (a) creating the system that causes the abuse, and/or (b) failing to prevent the abuse from happening.  Is this fair?

Neither man 'created' the system they serve(d) in, of course--the church organizations had both been in place for years and years before those two individuals attained the top leadership position of the faith.  I don't believe either system could be considered to have 'caused' the problem, either--only that the perpetrators have found a place to exist within the system.  I'm not at all clear what the detractors of either faith expected either man to be able to do, to stop any and all abuse from happening...

On the Catholic side, having priests be able to marry might be a partial solution--but LDS bishops, of course, have always been able to marry--and yet, abuse can still occur...  Neither Pres. Hinckley nor whomever becomes the new pope will be able to eliminate such abuse, because neither man has the power to do so.  Once free agency has been given to man, there really isn't any way for anyone to stop them from using it for harm.

Which leads into the next point...the people who demand an end to the abuse are essentially asking--and blaming--the wrong person.  They should be looking toward the real leader of the LDS and Catholic Churches--that is, Jesus Christ himself.  Presumably, the Lord has the power to either (a) dynamically reveal all current and potential abusers among priests and bishops to the pope and/or the prophet, or perhaps (b) simply stretch forth His hand and prevent the abuse from happening directly.  He does not, of course, which demonstrates that free agency must and will be respected from on high, no matter what.  It's the Lord's system we live in, and if He has decreed that we'll be agents unto ourselves, for good and bad, then that's the way it is--and no amount of effort from the part of Church leaders is going to eliminate it.

In an interesting way, the state of the Catholic Church today can be paralleled to what the LDS Church may become in the future--or, alternately, what it already has become on a smaller scale in areas of Utah and Idaho.  Catholicism is not just a religion in many parts of the world--it is also the predominant culture of many communities (and countries, even).  Catholic principles and customs have become so common among people in certain areas that they are taken for granted, and much of the spiritual aspect is lost.  These 'secular Catholics' are involved with the cultural aspects of Catholicism, including Church attendance (or at least on Easter and Christmas), but pay the spiritual and eternal concepts of the Church little mind--enough that being Catholic probably doesn't register as a 'religion' in their minds at all...

(Two of my friends in high school were Catholic--one fairly devout and the other as 'secular' as they come.  The two of them argued more about religion between themselves than either of them did with any of the Mormons.  Not too different than the discussions between conservative and liberal Mormons in the Bloggernacle today...)

While on a smaller scale, you can see the same thing in the LDS areas of Utah and Idaho today.  Many Saints are enveloped in the cultural aspects of LDS life in Utah, and have often lost sight of the true spirit behind the Church.  While it's harder to be a 'secular Mormon' due to a more pronounced spiritual emphasis behind most Church functions (and the inherent difficulty in being a member), you can see the trend starting.  The larger the Church population, the larger the divide between the devout members who really 'get it', and those on the other end who exist within the Church culture without attaining nor desiring spiritual growth.

While, of course, the LDS Church would love to have as many members as the Catholics do, having that many Church members will inevitably bring many of the same difficulties.  I've always been amazed at how many Catholics openly disregard--and often actively oppose--the teachings of the pope...yet still consider themselves 'active' Catholics.  When the scope of membership includes that many people, it's perhaps unavoidable.  You can see today the slow but steady rise of 'active' Mormons who openly view the teachings of the LDS Church with disdain--something you'd probably never see in Brigham Young's time.  I think that's more to do with the increased size of the Church, than a specific change in attitudes from one century to the next.  Today, you can find a large group of 'core' members, who are as faithful and steadfast as the early LDS pioneers...but also a larger number of 'fringe' members who were (a) born in a fifth-generation LDS family and never caught the spirit, or (b) joined the Church because they wanted to fit in to the popular culture here in Utah, without any particular interest in spiritual things.  (Utah is the one place where you're more likely to gain friends than lose friends by converting.  And, for better or worse, that is an unmistakable factor in some people choosing to be baptized...)

Will the LDS Church become tomorrow what the Catholic Church is today?  Only time will tell...but I think it's obvious that the two Churches share a lot in common, and the parallels between the two will be interesting to monitor...

April 10, 2005 in LDS Church News | Permalink

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/18231/2222095

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Conference Aftermath III: Mormons and Catholics:

Comments

Nice comments, Baron. I think it's wrong to classify any member that has a different opinion as "fringe" member. But the comparison with the Catholic church is enlightening. I remember talking to a Catholic kid in high school who explained that the Pope's statements were just guidelines or suggestions. Perhaps Americans are more inclined to see it that way than other Catholics around the world.

Posted by: Dave | Apr 18, 2005 9:50:33 AM

Well, that kind of depends on what the different opinion is...

People (even apostles) can have different opinions about certain things without problem. But questioning certain other policies is more than just having a different opinion--it's in a sense questioning the authority of the person with whom you disagree. It's a fine line, of course, but there are certain things that if you don't accept the official 'opinion' then it casts doubt on your belief about the underlying authority of the Church to begin with.

Or maybe not... Catholics seem to do this all the time--hold opinions that are 180 degrees away from the pope's teachings, yet consider themselves good Catholics, without regard to what their opinion says about their underlying belief in the pope's authority. You don't see that quite to the same extent on the LDS side, but I think as the Church continues to grow, that group of 'I'm a perfectly good member, even though I disregard everything the prophet says' will increase...

Posted by: The Baron | Apr 18, 2005 4:49:31 PM

I agree, I have too many friends who I grew up with who think and say the last sentence you wrote.. I took out my mounds of earrings in my lobes when The Prophet told me too. Many say "well it isn't that big of a deal".. My dh says it really is because it is a disobedience issue.. Who is author of disobedience??

Posted by: Sportsmomof5 | Apr 19, 2005 2:57:44 PM

After 30 years a member (studious and devout?) I am beginning to see the difference between the spiritual aspects of the religion and the culture. It is sad that many throw out 'te baby with the bathwater'. The basic principles that support the gospel of Jesus Christ are the most important and all to offten you see the discussions on the finer points of doctrine/dogma that distract us from the core gospel principles. My greatest fear is that we will become like the Pharisees of Christ's time.

Posted by: libmor | Jun 19, 2005 4:50:47 AM

The Mormon Satanic cult should not be compared with the Catholic church.

Posted by: Chris Goldstein | Jul 13, 2007 1:01:26 AM

What you see as similarities, is what make Catholicism and Mormonism so different. Your comparison is so superficial that I cannot consider it serious. The Catholic Church is the true Church Christ funded more than 2000 years ago. The Catholic Church is the repository of truth, and from it all Christians have received the truth. Since the reformation, some have taken it only partially and for that reason they cannot experience the fullness of the gospel (but they are brothers under one faith). But Mormon doctrine is so opposed to Christian doctrine that I don’t understand why they insist to be considered Christians. Here are just some examples:

- They don’t believe in the holy trinity
- They believe God the father has a physical body
- They believe God the father was once a man like us and then became God
- The Jesus Christ and God they believe in are the ones that appeared to Joseph Smith not the one in the Bible
- God procreates spirits in heaven with the holy mother and those spirits are then born to this world
- You will become a God and rule over a world

I respect them as persons, and they are nice people with good moral principles, but what I have problems with is when they start claiming to be the restored church. Don’t you know that Jesus when he founded that Church said to Peter (Matthew 16:18 ) “upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell won't prevail against it”.
I tell you this in love, so you may be free of false doctrines and come to the truth.

Posted by: Jose | Feb 4, 2008 11:13:14 AM

Post a comment